Haimantika, our speaker today, stands as an inspiration for millions within the tech industry. Emerging from a small place, her journey to a space where she collaborates with significant figures in the tech world is truly motivating. Her story shows that not having a CS degree doesn't stop you from getting a job in tech, no matter the position you aim for. Her passion lies in community building, evident in her role as a Developer Advocate at AppWrite. Her journey serves as a testament to breaking barriers and achieving success in tech without traditional qualifications.

This blog is written by Shivam Katare based on the conversation Haimantika had on our Twitter space. The podcast is available on Spotify and YouTube channel.

Q 1. How does a day in Haimantika's life look like?

H- That's interesting. So, it really depends because I also travel for work at times, so that gets mixed up. But without the travel part, I would say that I wake up pretty late. I'm not a morning person. After I wake up, I do some exercise because I realize that other than work, your health matters a lot. Then slowly, I start for the day. As a DevRel, my day varies from one day to another. But, in general, I am involved in doing various things. For now, we have a hackathon going on, so I'm overseeing that. We also have Hacktoberfest coming up, and our company is a sponsor, so there's a lot of Hacktoberfest-related work. Additionally, we have a special release scheduled for tomorrow, which means anything related to the release, be it documentation, tutorials, code samples, or strategies, is part of my work. It's a small startup, and as a DevRel, you wear multiple hats.

Since it's remote work, I have flexible work times. This means if I want to go somewhere, say to meet my grandma for an hour or so, I can do that between work hours. I let my colleagues and co-workers know that I'll be leaving for an hour or two but will return to finish the remaining work. That's how it looks. It's a lot of work, but there's always some excitement to look forward to because there's so much learning every day.

Typically, I finish my day by 8:30 because I start late. Occasionally, I have some meetings because my manager is in the US, so they might happen around 9:00 PM, but not later than that. It's very rare. After work, I spend time either binge-watching or chatting with my mom. That's how I spend the 24 hours of my day, and then I aim for eight hours of beauty sleep. So, yes, that's all right. This is a kind of general answer for remote workers, highlighting the flexibility and the dynamics of startup work.

Q 2. During your childhood, what type of child were you, Haimantika?

H- Oh, I was pretty naughty, and my parents used to say I was pretty witty as well. There's this fun story from when I was younger. It may not sound fun now that we're all grown-up adults, but back then, it used to be a riot. I remember during my Nursery interview to get into school, we had interviews. I was asked a question about dancing, and despite being a Bengali, and supposedly knowing how to dance, I didn't. So, I lied to the interviewers. Mind you, I was just two or three and a half years old at that time. I confidently said I could dance. When they asked me to dance, I told them, 'Okay, there's no music. You know, only after you arrange music for me, then I'll dance.' Since it was a school setting and a typical interview, they didn't have music on hand. So, I escaped like a pro.

Apart from that, I somehow managed to score well in school without studying much. I was more into playing and doing things. In my childhood, there was this show on Pogo called 'Mad.' I used to waste a lot of fevicol and build fun stuff. Sometimes, I even used to watch those science experiments. I've always loved science, so that was a big part of my childhood. My father was an engineer, so we used to build things like torches and more. It was really enjoyable.

That's how my day looked. Since childhood, I've always loved sleeping, and that's still constant. I used to sleep pretty early back then and wake up early for school. But yes, that's how my days looked, aside from eventually pursuing engineering as a profession. I used to do all these things for fun.

Q 3. Did you pursue a degree in Electronics and Communication Engineering? Was this decision entirely your own, or did certain factors influence your choice of this career path?

H- Okay, it has some story because I didn't want to take up engineering. Though I used to mention everywhere, you know, in those slam books and all of those places that I want to become an engineer. But when I grew up and my senses grew as well, I realized that I like something like being a journalist or something like that. Later, more than the course, I was set that I wanted to study at Delhi University after my 12 ports were over. You know, luckily, I did score good marks enough to get into good colleges.

But since I'm a single parent child and my father expired long ago, it wasn't possible for my family to send me away to a city away from my hometown, quite far away from my hometown all alone. And you know, bear those expenses even though the education cost wasn't high. But back then, staying and food costs would have cost a lot, which wasn't an option back then. So the only option we had was to study engineering. You know, from a local college. And it cost even though it was a private college, the cost was much much less, compared to the food and lodging that I would require to do in a different city. So yes, that's how I got into engineering.

While I was in high school, I really enjoyed playing around with semiconductors and all of those things. I also had biology, so in my 11th and 12th learned about biology and very little about computers. But preschool-like since I studied from an ICC background, I knew how to code and I was more inclined toward that. I just took biology for fun. I still don't know why I chose biology back in 11 and 12, but yes, I did. So back then, since I really liked semiconductors, that was a chapter in physics. I realized that okay, this is something that I'm interested in, and electronics is all about that. So why don't I take electronics?

Also, since, this was one reason. The other reason was that by the time I decided that okay, I could let go of Delhi University and join engineering, it was a bit too late to get admission to CSC. So that was the second reason why I chose EC. But the major reason was due to semiconductors, and I loved it.

Q 4. Was studying electronics and communication challenging for you over the four-year period given your interest was more inclined towards coding and related fields? Despite your passion, did you find the curriculum different from your preferred areas of focus?

H- Absolutely, initially, I had a complex relationship with mathematics. There were times when I didn't particularly enjoy it as a subject, but I found certain aspects of mathematics intriguing. I vividly recall an exam where I didn't perform well, and in a moment of frustration, I called my mom, expressing my desire to quit studying altogether. I contemplated pursuing a more conventional degree, perhaps something like a BSc, as an alternative. However, despite my initial discouragement, I managed to achieve good scores, realizing later that my reaction was perhaps exaggerated due to one subpar exam.

There were instances in the past when I found little enjoyment in what I was studying. Fortunately, my college didn't impose a strict 75% attendance policy, which allowed me the flexibility to skip classes and dedicate that time to upskilling myself. Approaching my fourth year of college, the COVID-19 pandemic hit, resulting in the suspension of in-person classes. While acknowledging the devastation the pandemic caused and the loss of numerous lives, I found a silver lining career-wise. With the shift to online learning, I had the opportunity to immerse myself completely in learning. The isolation with just my laptop turned out to be a turning point for me. It allowed me to focus solely on my personal growth and education, which ultimately helped me turn things around towards the end of my engineering studies. I credit this transformation to the newfound time and freedom I had during that period, so I'm immensely grateful for that phase.

Undoubtedly, the pandemic has significantly altered the lives of countless individuals, myself included. It's remarkable how unexpected circumstances like these can lead to unforeseen opportunities and personal growth.

Q 5. Could you elaborate on the origin of your passion for building communities? Your talks across various platforms emphasize this aspect of community-building. Where did this passion first take root in your life?

H-You know, I was discussing COVID, and that's when I came to understand the significance of communities. Frankly, anyone in the audience who's either lived in a third or fourth-tier city or attended a college like that would comprehend the environment there. When I reflect on those times, I'm grateful for the changes happening now. Back when I started college, things were quite different. The environment lacked dynamism; our professors weren't supportive of exploring new things, and mentorship was scarce.

In that setting, our projects were often mere replicas of existing ideas. The innovation, like in IoT projects, started to emerge only from our batch. Prior to that, it was even more limited. We lacked an environment conducive to learning or fostering creativity. However, while casually scrolling through LinkedIn, I noticed peers my age achieving remarkable things. They were attending meetups, becoming Intel software innovators, GitHub campus experts, and more.

Seeing these accomplishments made me feel inadequate despite being in the same age group. It dawned on me that in the larger scheme of things when it comes to securing a job, it wouldn't be a competition among a hundred college peers; it'd be competing against thousands in the job market, an intensely competitive landscape. This realization ignited a desire within me to improve myself. That's when I discovered Microsoft Learn Student Ambassadors, who were very active on LinkedIn at the time.

I applied for it without even knowing how to use tools like Azure or any similar technologies. Fortunately, I got selected, marking the beginning of my journey into communities. Engaging with diverse people, not just from India but globally, became possible as everyone was at home due to COVID. Subsequently, I began upskilling myself in Microsoft Power Platform, sharing my progress on platforms like Twitter, and embracing public learning, a concept I'd discovered only recently.

My initial foray into communities stemmed from Microsoft, gradually expanding into experimenting with various technologies, showcasing my work on social media, and participating in hackathons, winning a few. As I interacted extensively within the Microsoft Community, my network expanded. From being an event attendee, I evolved into a speaker, although that wasn't my initial aim. For about a year, I dedicated myself to absorbing knowledge from different events, learning not just about tech but also about global cultural nuances and communication strategies.

Amidst these experiences, I realized that the challenges I faced in college or uncertainties about career choices weren't isolated to a specific city or region; they were widespread issues. Interacting with individuals from diverse backgrounds, including those from Africa, exposed me to a commonality of struggles. Teaching and engaging with people have always been my passion, and I found that communities provided the platform to pursue this interest more actively.

During these interactions, I stumbled upon the job role of Developer Advocates. It resonated deeply with me, aligning perfectly with my passions. I decided to delve further into communities, acknowledging where my true interests lay, intending to transform this passion into a fulfilling career. And that's how my journey toward realizing my career aspirations in this field began.

Q 6. How did your responsibilities differ between the student ambassadorship and the subsequent technical support role?

H: Yes. So, the student ambassador thing is just a community and the role was a full-time job and an internship.

Q 7. How did you get into this internship?

H: Okay, so, back then, I think it was the first version of a hacker called Fix-A-Thon. Like obviously, my college didn't have Microsoft campus recruiting happening. Since I was active in Microsoft communities, I realized that I really liked the people there and the ideals and principles they follow. So, that began—Microsoft grew to be my dream company. Obviously, as kids, we have all used Windows, so working for that company was the dream. Normally, while scrolling LinkedIn, I found out a hacker called Fix-a-Thon that was hiring interns for technical support. I thought, "Why don't I just apply to it?" So, I applied, and there were around 11,000 applications, if I remember correctly. This is the data that my HR mentioned to me later after I got hired full-time.

From there, we were 100 people, and we had different exams. The exam was very typical to software engineering roles as well. We had some problem problems to solve, some questions, and all of those. After that, 100 people were selected, and we had a problem statement to solve. We also had some trainings on OS, networking, and all of those things during the hackathon. After the hackathon was over, at every step, there was a point where I was on call with two Microsoft engineers. They had given me a document with different problems to solve, and I had to do that on call. That was the first elimination round that we had during the hackathon. After this was over, only 50 people qualified to the Final Dawn where we had to build a solution.

My team didn't qualify for the finale, but these 50 people got a chance to interview at Microsoft. It was followed by one technical round, one HR round, and one round with the director, if I remember correctly. Finally, we got our internship. That's how we got our internship, and it lasted for almost six months or three months. I don't remember correctly. During our internship, we had two more rounds of interviews and one assessment, and then finally the full-time job. I know this sounds very lengthy, but yes, that's how the entire process looked like.

I remember this entire process started in December 2020, and it went on till February. It was almost the end of February when I received my offer letter to join as an intern.

Q 8. What advantages or benefits did you find while working at Microsoft?

H: Hmm, perks. Okay, I also see Rohan; he's a friend of mine. He works at Microsoft. He's still there and can provide better insights. But, I would say one thing that I really liked when I joined, since I was a fresh graduate, was a program called Aspire. It's like a community within Microsoft exclusively accessible to interns and Microsoft employees. This space is unique and downloadable via spacesdown.com to download your spaces today. It connects fresh graduates throughout the entire company. They facilitate networking, mutual learning, and interaction with senior Engineers and leadership figures at Microsoft. Also, they organized enjoyable activities; for instance, there's this person called Vog, who provided excellent communication tips. We had sessions with him, along with numerous learning and fun activities, like learning how to cook B Kabab through PDFs and videos. Getting introduced to this network of Aspirus, and interacting with senior engineers, and higher-level directors within Microsoft was an invaluable opportunity.

Other than that, something I really appreciated was the flexibility at Microsoft. Despite not thoroughly enjoying my assigned job role, there was the option to work with cross-teams outside of my job responsibilities. I collaborated with the Dev Advocate team, creating and contributing to Microsoft's learning modules and partnering with them for various events, which was a great learning experience. Given the vastness of Microsoft as an organization, learning from someone was merely a team's message away. Most people were responsive and willing to chat, offering valuable advice and insights. That accessibility was one of the aspects I truly appreciated about Microsoft.

Overall, these were some of the things I really liked about Microsoft. Anyone looking to join this company could benefit significantly from these opportunities. While there might be a considerable pool of applicants vying for positions, those who make it through are likely to experience these enriching aspects.

Q 9. What are the primary insights or key lessons learned from your tenure at Microsoft?

H: Takeaways, this is a personal learning I would say that, uh, your dream job is not necessarily equal to your dream company. So, you need to choose what you want. Is it the company that you want, or is it the job title that you want? I was lucky that I was quick to realize what I wanted more. I had the opportunity to switch to the role that I really wanted. However, many people don't do that. They spend years in the same role where they are not liking the work and end up being burnt out. This isn't specific to Microsoft but is a general observation.

Another thing that I really liked was at Microsoft since everybody was very helpful and I could network and chat with anybody. I was talking about even Scott Hanselman. I had an opportunity to chat with Scott Hanselman. If anybody here doesn't know, you can go to Google or Twitter and search him. He's a very inspirational figure for me. So, when I had the opportunity to chat with these people, I could learn from their experiences. Many times, especially for me as well, you'll find people on social media saying that a particular career path is dead or there's nowhere to go, and you cannot step up in your career. But when you talk to these people who have been in this role for years and hear from their experiences, you know that posts like this don't matter. You get to know more about the actual world than staying in your own bubble. That's one of the best parts, I would say, about Microsoft.

One more thing, which is a final takeaway, is that there are some ideals that Microsoft follows. These ideals are so ingrained in me, even though I didn't spend a lot of time in that company. First is the growth mindset, something I guess all of us should have. Also, Microsoft believed in the "learn-it-all" attitude over the "know-it-all" attitude. Even though I spent a very short time at Microsoft, these are the things that I'll forever remember. They definitely helped me shape into a better person. So, yeah, that's how I would like to sum it up

Q 10. How did you get into AppWrite?

H: Okay, that's, so I was looking out—looking out in the sense like I wanted to become a developer Advocate. I was interviewing internally at Microsoft as well, but that didn't work out because the teams I was interviewing for were all based in the UK, and due to internal policies, that wasn't possible back then. But I realized that doing the support job was not something that I wanted, and I wanted a way out.

I saw that Aight was hiring at the moment, and I was reached out by them, asking if I am interested in applying. So, you know, I looked at what the app does, and I found it interesting. I made my resume tailored to their job description, applied for it, and very soon heard back that I had been selected for the first phase of the interview. Then, we had three interviews, and finally, I got my offer. So, I guess that's how I got into Aight. It was much easier and shorter than the process I mentioned about Microsoft, but yeah, that's how I got where I am right now.

Q 11. What do you believe was the primary factor that led to you being approached for the opportunity? Was it predominantly due to your network connections within the company, or do you attribute it to something else?

H: So even today, when I get reached out, most of the messages I receive - even back then - were about individuals watching my work on social media or reading my blog. They reached out because they saw me at a meetup or encountered some of my projects. There was always a specific reason prompting them to connect with me. Notably, nobody mentioned reaching out solely due to my previous job experience. It wasn't like someone said, "Hey, just because you worked at a big company, I'm reaching out to you." Instead, their messages centered around the fact that they had been following my work for a while. They would mention, "We've been following your progress, saw that you did XYZ, and wanted to inquire if you'd be interested in this role." That's been the consistent nature of the direct messages (DMs) I've received.

Q 12. Certainly, could you provide a detailed breakdown of the interview process you underwent at Appwrite?

H: Yes, sure. But I would like to mention that when I joined Appwrite, it was a very early stage. Like currently, we are double the number than what we were when I joined. When I joined, there wasn't really an HR. There was one person in the Ops Team who was helping schedule the interviews and all of it. So, I don't know what the new process is like, but I would like to say what my process looked like, and I'm guessing that is almost the same with maybe one or two extra rounds or, you know, some assignments added to it.

But the first round was the culture fit round at Appwrite. We do look into culture a lot. How the person is to talk to because that's what we really value. We look at passion because we believe that skills can be taught, but passion and how you are as a person is something that really matters to us. And the second one was a technical round followed by questions that were specific to the devrel. They were given. I was given some situations and was asked how would I handle it if I were in this role and so on.

And the final round was with CEO Eldad. So with Eldad, he didn't really ask me any questions, but he presented to me about aight. That was a very different kind of interview that I had. He presented to me about Appwrite—what Appwrite is right now, what the goals are, what I am expected to do. The only question that he asked me was why or let's say if I am excited by it and if yes, does the job role look interesting to me, or is this something that I look forward to doing with my job role?

So, I just had three rounds in Appwrite. And then I got the offer.

Q 13. Do you believe that future recruitments might primarily consider candidates from within the community? Could active contributions prior to applying significantly enhance one's chances of securing a position?

H: Absolutely, you're correct. This practice isn't new; it's been part of our approach for some time now. Back when Ed, the founder, secured funding and set out to establish the company, our initial hires predominantly came from the community. These were individuals actively involved in contributing to various issues. Many of our current employees also emerged from this same community-driven background. A notable recent addition to our team is Steven. For those active on our Discord Channel, Steven might ring a bell as he's been prompt in addressing numerous queries on the server. His recruitment exemplifies our ongoing practice of bringing in individuals from the community. This strategy is integral to us because, as a small company, leveraging the expertise and prior knowledge of those familiar with our ethos is invaluable to our team's growth and success.

Q 14. Beyond the financial and meeting-related perks, what, in your opinion, distinguishes Appwrite from other companies in the industry?

H: Absolutely! There are numerous aspects to consider. Let's begin with the perks we discussed earlier. As employees, we are offered an incredible opportunity to sponsor an open-source project of our choice, which I find truly amazing. This is particularly special because Appwrite began as an open-source project and remains open-source. The journey from its inception, where our founder faced financial constraints, to its evolution into a full-fledged company highlights the deep-rooted value we place on open source. Each of us feels a strong connection to the open-source community, and this sponsorship opportunity is something I cherish deeply. It's an integral part of our ethos.

Another noteworthy point that sets us apart is our commitment to prioritizing our community. Our releases and features consistently reflect this prioritization. There have been instances where we've chosen to emphasize certain features based on the needs of our community members. This dedication to serving our community's needs, whether for their projects or client work, distinguishes us. Appwrite's ethos, where people take precedence over profit, is a core aspect that resonates with me deeply. It's something I'm genuinely proud of.

Q 15. Could you outline the disparities you've observed between your experiences working at a tech giant, often referred to as FAANG, and your current role in a remote startup? Specifically, what distinctions have you noticed in terms of work culture, environment, and networking opportunities between these two different organizational settings?

H: Firstly, in comparing Appwrite and Microsoft, it's crucial to acknowledge the considerable difference in size between the two companies. Microsoft, as a large entity, already had an established brand identity. In contrast, aight is a smaller company where there's an opportunity to contribute to building and shaping its brand from scratch. This aspect of starting from the ground up is particularly appealing to me, considering my age and the eagerness to experiment, learn, and embrace failure as part of the learning curve.

The learning curve at aight feels exponential due to the experimentation and the lessons learned from failures. Through these experiences, I've gained insights into what doesn't work, which is valuable knowledge in its own right. Moreover, in terms of company culture, aight fosters an open environment. There's an absence of micromanagement, and there's a shared belief that networking events like meetups and conferences are beneficial for personal and professional growth.

What stands out significantly at aight is the inclusive approach toward networking opportunities. It's not confined to specific roles; everyone, regardless of department or role, is encouraged to participate in events, contribute, or even speak at these gatherings. The freedom to pursue one's interests both within and outside of work is a remarkable aspect of working at Appwrite, which I truly appreciate.

Now, both Microsoft and Appwrite have their distinct characteristics, given their disparate positions in the industry. Microsoft, being a multinational corporation, operates on a vastly different scale compared to Appwrite, an early-stage startup. However, both have their strengths and unique attributes that contribute to their respective appeal. While it's been some time since I departed from Microsoft, making specific comparisons is getting harder as my memory of my time there gradually fades. Nevertheless, the differences in company size, culture, and approach to work and networking stand out when reflecting on these experiences.

Q 16. Could you elaborate on the differences between open-sourcing a platform like "AppWrite" and a platform like Firebase? Specifically, what benefits does "AppWrite" derive from being open source, and how does this distinction impact its functionalities compared to platforms that aren't open source, like Firebase?

H: Okay, so you know, both these companies are very different because, like we were just comparing in the previous question, Microsoft and app right? Similarly, Google is also a big company and the business they do, they also cater to Enterprises. They have a different business model in general. Appwrite is a company, or you know, it's a project that started to help developers first. So, it's a company that is very developer-first and developer-focused compared to Google, which is B2D plus. Its customers are developers and also businesses and companies. So, their model is very different.

I don't really—I cannot really compare the benefits that both of these have because we have very different models. Which is why your product is also different. For developers, I feel that the flexibility within Appwrite and things that developers care about, be it vendor locking and all of these, is something that developers don't want to get into or, you know, there are problems. I have heard people saying that they started with a small packs but the pay-as-you-go tier has led them to pay up a huge sum of money compared to the pricing model that we have. You need to only pay once. So, there are many differences that I can list, and I believe that I wouldn't be taking Appwrite's side only because I work in the company, but both are very different in the approach that we have and the kind of mentality that we have.

Yes, I think that if you are a developer and if you are building a back-end, your choice would be Appwrite. And other than that, if you are somebody who doesn't care about vendor locking, data, or how much money you're spending and all, then maybe you would want to choose Firebase over Appwrite.

Q 17. How does participating in these offline interactions, such as meetups and networking events, contribute to one's advancement in the tech industry? Specifically, how does this engagement aid in fostering professional connections and potentially improving one's career trajectory within this field?

H: Yeah, so I have been to a few meetups, and we also have one coming up on 1st October in Bangalore. One thing that I've noticed is that when interacting with people face to face, it's much easier to communicate compared to messaging. Messaging involves sending a message and waiting for a response, which can take minutes or even hours. Personally, I struggle with text conversations; I might respond to a few messages but then forget or get caught up in work or other things.

In face-to-face conversations, you can have a seamless 15-minute discussion, and ask direct questions, which becomes challenging in an online scenario without a call. Not everyone excels at communication, and while it's essential to develop those skills, I firmly believe that offline communication is more effective. Additionally, showing things in person, like designs on a laptop or phone, is much more practical than sharing links through messages.

Another significant advantage of meetups is the opportunity to connect with people. For instance, a freelancer attending a meetup might meet someone looking to hire freelancers, leading to potential job opportunities. This isn't just a hypothetical; there have been instances where people benefited from such connections, paid or unpaid. Building a network through meetups can indeed be valuable.

However, I wouldn't advise attending every meetup, especially if there are numerous events in your city every weekend. Attending one or two meetups a month could suffice. For college students, focusing on improving skills should be a priority before dedicating time to attend multiple meetups. While opportunities and networking are beneficial, not all meetups may align with your interests or goals, potentially leading to a feeling of wasted time.

Before attending a meetup, it's wise to do some research. Ask people or seek opinions about the event. Even a simple inquiry about past attendees' experiences can provide valuable insights.

So yeah, that was a lengthy response to a simple question.

Q 18. Could you provide a concise explanation of developer relations and developer advocacy? You mentioned earlier that it encompasses various roles beyond marketing or content writing. Can you briefly break down what developer relations entail and offer insights into how individuals can enter this field or become developer advocates?

H: Wow, that's a great question to end with. I just have two minutes before I hop off. The space, but I would say, yes, so you might have anybody who is in the audience. You must have heard about the term developer relationship. You might have also seen developer Advocates, and you might think that these are just people who are doing marketing or people who are doing community stuff. And you are very wrong. If you are interested in this role, I'll just give you a brief.

I would say that let's say DevRel is a big umbrella similar to how software engineering is an umbrella, and under that, you have backend Engineers, front-end Engineers, full-stack Cloud engineers, and so on and so forth. Similarly, under DevRel, you have developer Advocates, you have developer marketers, you have technical writers, you have Community managers, and all of them. Each people do or each job role has different work that they take up. Like if you are a community manager by title, it means that your work revolves only around communities, building them, scaling them, all of those. If you're a technical writer, your work involves only working on technical documentation and all of those. If you are a developer Advocate, your work is to advocate for the product that you are aligned with. To do that, you are building integrations, you're writing blogs, and even technical documentation at times. You are going to different meetups. You are also, you know since a part of your job is to advocate about the product, you're also strategizing different ways to improve developer education. You know, there's a whole lot of things that you can do that.

So, I am very much hard, you know, I have a hard St at seven, but to Define that, that's what we do. And as the definition goes like DevRel, we are the bridge between developers and the engineering team at our company. So we are the people who hear the feedback from the community and give it back to the engineering team that we have in our company. And not just feedback, but there are a lot of other hats that we wear while we are acting as a bridge between the developers and the engineering team.